A few weeks ago, my 14 year-old sister was about to be baptized. Right before the service, I asked her to sit outside with me on the same porch where she had accepted Christ on Thanksgiving a year and a half ago.
We had talked about baptism before, and though I had encouraged her to do it immediately, I knew that it had to be her decision and not something that was imposed on her. I told her that I was proud of her.
We talked about the beauty of the rite, about the importance of being a new creation, about having the "old washed away." Realizing her own fickleness as a teenager, she asked me, "What if I turn away from God after this? I mean, I don't want to, but what if I do? Will I still go to heaven?"
My response went something like this...
Well, that's the question, isn't it? Entire denominational rifts are based on this quandary. What is disconcerting about this question is that this often isn't about God's grace; rather, it's often a question of, "What can I get away with and still get into the paradise resort?"
In Romans 3, the Paul does a little proof on why we shouldn't test the grace of God:
But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), 'Let us do evil that good may come'? Their condemnation is just. (v. 4-8, NASB)
The two types of people that I find asking the question "Can I lose my salvation?" are:
-
Those who want to get away with sin and still be in the "Jesus club" on Judgment Day;
-
Those who are truly seeking to honor God with their lives, while struggling with sin, and they are genuinely afraid of his holy wrath.
For the first half, I believe the Bible speaks about those types in Hebrews - a popular, yet often misconstrued verse on the subject of losing one's salvation. It says: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." (v. 4-6, NIV)
As an early Christian, I read this verse to mean that we could mess up our lives enough that God would turn his back on us. In fact, I even shared this verse with a believer who had a drinking problem to guilt them into thinking that they could fall from grace. However, if you read the whole chapter, you will realize that this verse isn't for believers. In verse 9, the author writes, "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation..." (NASB)
Popular pastor and writer John Piper once delivered a message called "When is Saving Faith Impossible?" He cites the Hebrews 6:4-6 and believes that this person isn't saved. Though having "elevated religious experiences" that resemble salvation, they have not genuinely repented and been created anew in Christ. Jesus echoes this in Matthew 7:
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' (v. 21-23, ESV)
I told my sister that this is a good question to struggle with, but not one to obsess over. For people in the second group, some can become neurotic at the fear of losing their salvation. Believing that God's grace has a limit, they live their faith life conservatively, walking on eggshells and paying penance toward God for every single sin. They are afraid that if they push the wrong button, they will forever be cut off from his eternal love. So, they keep getting "saved" over and over again, hoping that it will eventually "stick." Those types need to better understand who they are in Christ and that salvation isn't as fickle as a teenager girl.
This is a complex issue, and I don't want to be cavalier about sin, but attributing the acquiring and hypothetical losing of my salvation to works, I believe, is unbiblical and an insult to God's grace. More important than arguing over polemical issues, I think that it's important for Christians of all doctrinal stances to embrace some basic, biblical facts about their identity in Christ:
-
Romans 8:1-2 - I am free from condemnation.
-
Romans 8:28 - I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances.
-
Romans 8:31-39 - I am free from any condemnation brought against me and I cannot be separated from the love of God.
-
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - I have been established, anointed and sealed by God.
-
Colossians 3:1-4 - I am hidden with Christ in God.
-
Philippians 1:6 - I am confident that God will complete the good work He started in me.
-
Philippians 3:20 - I am a citizen of heaven.
-
2 Timothy 1:7 - I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind.
-
1 John 5:18 - I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me. (Neil Anderson, Freedom in Christ Ministries)
Although there are some challenging verses in the Bible that speak about
testing ourselves,
persevering, and
falling away (verses over which we ought to wrestle in prayer), compared to those verses, there is a mountain of verses (at least, in my reading of the New Testament) telling Christians that they are
new creations,
secure and sealed in Christ,
seated in the heavenly realms, given a
new heart and a new spirit, not separated from God's love, safe from the Enemy, and so on. Reading the epistles is a good place to start for more on this subject.
Think about it rationally:
If you are a new creation, can you become uncreated? Can you actually fall away and go back to being an old creation? I told my sister that I, personally, didn't believe that we could "lose" our salvation, but even if that were possible, it would take a force stronger than demons, angels, or anything in creation to separate us from God's love (Romans 8:38-39).
At the very least, your salvation is not something that will float away with the wind. Peter, who himself denied Jesus three times and was even called "Satan" by the Lord, seemed to believe that if born-again Christians fall back into sin, it's not because they've lost their salvation, but because they've forgotten that they have been "cleansed from past sins" (2 Peter 1:8-9).
Yet, with so many self-help books and quick ways to God, it's hard to tell these days who has had a genuine rebirth and who is hoping to have a "Get out of jail free" card to use at the Judgment, just in case Christianity "happens to be true." That's why Paul says to the church in Corinth, "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?" (2 Corinthians 13:5, NASB)
It's not bad advice.
Test yourself. Peter told the church to eagerly "make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10, NIV). If you find out that you've said a half-hearted "sinner's prayer," gone through the motions, maybe even seen God move in your life, but never experienced real repentance and new life in Christ, consider the answer to the jailer's question "What must I do to be saved?" in
Acts 16:30-34. Check it out for yourself. It's worth dusting off that old Bible on the shelf. You'll find what you're looking for, and I don't think that once you have it, it'll be that easy to lose.
While, I didn't mean for this blog to be a "case for eternal security," I realize that some people may take it as that. So, in order to be fair, here are some other links to sites on the subject of Calvinism, eternal security, election, etc. worth checking out. This isn't scholarly research or anything; I just googled "eternal security" and a few other phrases. I will say that most top search items brought me to websites that made a case for eternal security, and it was harder to find sites that go against this doctrine. Nonetheless, here's what I found:
The case for losing your salvation:
The case for eternal security:
Podcasts:
Examples of why these kinds of controversies don't interest me:
Here's a video on the subject of losing your salvation and God's nature as a Father:
My struggle has always been...if we completely turn from God by denying his very existence, denying his death on the cross and our need for him, etc...why/would he allow us to be with him in heaven since that is the basis for our salvation? (not to oversimplify or anything)
I question this more so for the people I will run into in daily life and in missions (although I have dealt with this question myself). People with real issues that can't easily be answered with a quick theological doctrine or simple ideology.
This really is a "great debate" we see over and over again. Thank you for your insight!
We are not commanded to test ourselves because we might have once been saved and fallen away, but because God knows that many who read those verses have never been saved at all and by testing themselves will (hopefully) be able to find this out!
The most clarifying messages I have ever heard on the subject were "Hell's Best Kept Secret" and "True and False Conversions". You can listen to these for free at: http://www.livingwaters.com/learn/
After "losing my salvation" I have turned to a life of sin because I really think I lost my salvation for repeatedly sinning against god. That has happened to me over 3 years ago and during that period I have committed a lot of sins.
But now I have been thinking, had I really lost my salvation all along? Was it maybe the devil trying to trick me into thinking that I had lost it and making me lose hope. So I have re entered this topic and I'm hoping that I haven't lost my salvation.
Could you please tell me "have I lost my salvation" because I repeatidly sinned against my parents and god? Or was that just possibly a trick of the devil that he has played on me for the past 3 years?
And if not will god forgive me for my sins that I have commited in that 3 year period?
Please tell me if I have or not lost my salvation. Or have I messed myself up and it's too late?
I appreciate an effort to look at the Scriptures, but am alarmed at how people place such faith in weak philosophical arguments to establish doctrine. Keep in mind, it does not matter how slick or perfect a “logical” argument is, it does not establish doctrine; only Scripture can!
I do not like the argument that “if you are a new creation, can you become uncreated?” It logically proves too much! We are all goats before we become sheep… how can a goat become uncreated? Basically, the argument only proves that no one has ever been saved!
I also do not like the misleading of the reader in the “logical” argument where the writer equates salvation with the love of God (Romans 8). The passage says nothing about the inability to lose one’s salvation, but he tries to get others to read it into the passage anyway. This is where assumming a doctrine will lead you!
The question is, can one find such a doctrine of Eternal Security in the Scriptures without assuming it to be true first? I really do not think so! Have you ever really challenged it? Or just assumed it to be true because that is your paradigm? I would encourage every believer that faces the doctrine to be honest with themselves and try to approach the issue to the best of their ability, without presuppositions. Google “eternal security” and read a few opposing views, don’t just gamble your eternal soul on doctrine that you have not weighed out. Who knows” You might change your mind (if you approach it with an open mind), or you may be even become more sure of what you believe and why! It ceratinly can’t hurt to put a belief to the test, no matter how much comfort a doctrine brings.
If I take comfort in the idea of blowing myself up in an attack on others, because I have been taught to believe that this will get me to heaven… would I be a fool not to check it out to see if the doctrine were true?
Simply put, there is no virtue in believing a lie.
I commend you in this post. While there are aspects of the post where we may not see eye to eye 100%, I completely agree with your final statement of "I'd rather join Jesus in seeking and saving the lost". Too often we get "our panties in a bunch" so to speak about little issues like this, when if our Christian mindset was different, it wouldn't be an issue. In my time in youth ministry, 90% of the time, those who have talked to me about this come at it from the 1st perspective mentioned of "How close can I get without sinning?" I recently did a message based off of that question. Instead of asking "How close can I get...", we need to be asking "How close can I get to God?" If we are living our lives striving to be as close to Christ as possible, then these issues wouldn't even come up.
Honestly, I was raised in an atmosphere where it was supposedly very easy to lose your salvation. That was my "paradigm". Over the past 10 years of being a Christian, my views have changed dramatically. The doctrine of Eternal Security makes much more sense to me than the doctrine that it was possible to lose your salvation ever did.
Personally, I really like the argument that “if you are a new creation, can you become uncreated?”. If salvation is a supernatural act whereby God regenerates a depraved human soul and makes it into a new creation (being "born-again"), then how can we lose that unless God himself rejects us?
If you say, "but you could deny him by walking in sin and therefore lose your salvation", then I would respond by saying, "I will not continue to walk in sin because I am a new creation". If I am walking in a lifestyle of sin, I prove myself to be a false convert/hypocrite (Matt 7).
My biggest worry with those who do not believe in "Eternal Security" is that they might be relying on themselves and what they do to "stay saved" instead of trusting wholly in the God who has already saved them and eternally secured them.
If the continuance of your salvation depends on you and what you "DO", then I am afraid you are (very dangerously) relying on your works to justify you (or at least to keep you justified) before God.
That is not Biblical salvation. We are not saved by works, but by grace through faith. It is not of ourselves, but is the gift of God, lest any man should boast.
I also have been born again and believe I have lost my salvation. It is truly a living nightmare. I can't find anyone that has been in this situation and has found help. If either of you have found hope, please, please contact me at rlotto2006@yahoo.com. This terror is unbearable.
I've also lost my salvation. I remember the emptiness in my soul befor getting saved and then when I got saved in 2006 my life was changed. I was full of joy and hope. It was wonderful to live with God. In 2009 I stopped paying full attention to God, and I started listening to other voices. God warned me several times but I didn't listen. I was going in the wrong direction. In June I committed a rebellious sin against God. Since than I've been experiencing a spiritual hell. I don't have God with me, I'm not experincing His presence. I don't have a relationship with God anymore and that causes me unbearable suffering. I want this to stop, and I want to be safe in God's presence. I've been praying for forgiveness for 8 months. Now I know it's not gonna happen, I've lost my salvation.
It's like a nightmare, I want to wake up but it's real.
http://theopenlife.blogspot.com/2005/07/when-i-was-four-years-old-stranger.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bunyan/grace.html
brothers and sisters read these testimonies they will help you a lot.
I think we need to keep in mind of Peter. He denied Christ 3 times and he came back and look at what Christ said...
Jesus Reinstates Peter
15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
16Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
Read the Prodigal Son too, the son was lost and then he returned! Im sorry that some christians feel that they've already lost their salvation (as if they can't return to Christ)... If Peter returned to Christ, then you can too (assuming you're sincere).
Ask yourself, "Am I willing to repent?"
If the answer is yes, then you have not lost your salvation. You can ask God's forgiveness, and He will give it to you. He is very merciful. He also understands your weaknesses better than you do.
If, however, you don't even care to repent of your sins, then you have lost your salvation. In this case, God has taken away your ability to return to Him.
This litmus test is found in Hebrews 6:6. There the writer explains that those who "fall away" cannot repent. He does not mean that their repentance is ineffective; he means what he says, that they literally cannot even repent.
The terrible risk of returning to sin again and again is that, at some point, God may remove your ability to repent.
Incidentally, I have known people who became unable to repent. They once were Christian but now they don't believe and they don't care. They don't even want to repent any more.
This should be of great comfort to my brothers and sisters who feel that they have sinned beyond God's willingness to forgive. If you care about your sin then God has still given you the wonderful gift of being able to ask for forgiveness.
My email address is cheerful@ptd.net. Yes I was cheerful before all this happened. God someone please help me.
None in my church or in ministry believed that I committed an unforgivable sin that cannot be forgiven. None in my church or in ministry thinks that one can lose salvation. My opinion is that we christians don't even have salvation. We have the hope for salvation, we have the promise of salvation, and if we obey God we'll get to Heaven.
I disobeyed God, and I know a few other people who were also so disobedient to God, that they are no longer able to produce good fruits. Without good fruits we are disqualified from entering Heaven.
Sorry I cannot help, and I don't think that anyone can do anything to make us feel better. If God does not forgive us, and He does not comfort us with his love, we can't do anything.
I also used to be a cheerful, happy person. Now all I can do is crying, and trying to focus on every day life. When I think about how wonderful my life used to be, and how miserable is now because my own foolishness I just want to run and "escape from life". But I know that's not gonna help either.
mind. I do not enjoy anything anymore. Everything reminds me of how far I fell. I read scary scriptures now. I can't believe that let this happen to my marriage and children and most of all God. I took the beautiful blessings that the Lord gave me and threw them back at the Lord. I didn't even realize what I was doing. I now have Bi-polar. I had a manic episode, it wasn't until I came home from the hospital and the medication started working that realized how bad I messed everything up. I miss the mind of Christ that I once had. I cant do anything now. God is love and I hurt that Love in every area in my life. I can't watch tv, listen to music, enjoy life ect. I keep praying for the Lord to put His Love back in me. I realize that I lost the fight against evil. Gods number one commandment is to Love. Without that His love working through us there is no hope. I am crushed. I wish I would have known all of this before hand. Life is horrible for me now. All I do is seek the Lord , I live in fear and
torment all the time now. I first thought it was just me but I have read other stories where there are other people who feel the same way I do. I feel like a complete failure. I used to be the most loving and caring
person even before I was saved. scripture that says that you would have been better of not knowing the way of righteousness that to know it and turn. The latter is worst than the first. I miss God so much in my life. I broke a lot of Love bonds last year. I just want to serve God again. I feel as though I lost the race. God please help me.
sermonindex.net
amazing grace all you want. If the grace you're singing about is
insufficient to save, if it's not powerful enough to save without
additions...I'm not sure how amazing it really is. And the amazing grace
of the Reformation was a grace that saved completely." - James R. White
I perceived that you are real born again based on your past experieces with the Lord. Therefore, you are a new creation in Christ Jesus. It is a fact that being a "new creature or creation" cannot be undone. This means that you cannot be brought back to your old nature as a fallen human being under the likeness of Adam. You are now created in the likeness of Jesus Christ. You had been raised up with Him, called, sanctified and glorified with Him. However, as a new creation in Christ, we still live in this human flesh which is bombarded with temptation daily so that many of us Christians fall into sin. Sinning as a Christian is different than an "unbeliever". An "unbeliever lives in sin. A Christian falls into sin but does not live in sin because we quickly repent and recognized our sinfullness by the help of the Holy Spirit who is in us. If after repenting you still feel guilty and not at peace, you have to go back where you left off before your fall or what ever you have done. There is a cause why peace and joy did not come back. For instance, you failed to give tithes for how many years and you wonder why all things in your life seems to be falling apart. Go back and restore your tithes. I would also recommend humbling yourself before our loving God through prayer seeking His face with fasting so that your spirit would be receptive to God's voice. I also recommend that you ask the help of those who operate in the prophetic or apostolic office. They carry wisdom and anoiting that could discern your spiritual health and could deal with the tormenting demon attacking you.
Shalom.
"It appears to me, that while Jeff tried to give a “balanced” approach to the issue, he did so on the basis of assuming that Eternal Security was true. I fully recommend his effort to find a balance and review Scripture, but not one passage he quoted establishes of teaches such a doctrine."
May I interject that there actually are verses that do establish more legitimacy to the doctrine of eternal security than the implications Arminians try to impose on the scriptures.
"I appreciate an effort to look at the Scriptures, but am alarmed at how people place such faith in weak philosophical arguments to establish doctrine. Keep in mind, it does not matter how slick or perfect a “logical” argument is, it does not establish doctrine; only Scripture can!"
It is absolutely true that only in the scriptures can we establish any doctrine. But it seems that it is your logic that is faulty in terms of argument. We don’t intend to establish any doctrine with any “slick” logic but to only apply what God has already established in the scriptures, and then on that basis, allow ourselves to “…reason together”, God’s appeal to man’s ability to think, in order to grasp God’s viewpoint. It’s actually biblical precedent where expressions are borrowed from outside sources so long as it is used within the intended spiritual context one is trying to make to reveal spiritual truth. Paul does quote a statement from a secular philosopher in order to identify and relate to the debaters from Mars Hill. These borrowed quotes from an unbiblical source can make an otherwise difficult concept easier to grasp to those who are foreign to scriptural truths and have never thought along those lines before. Jesus used parables, stories, not doctrine per se, to illustrate spiritual truths He wanted to convey where they carried their own logic to the end to make their points clear. No slick logic there. The “philosophical arguments” as you stated them, were actually reasonable logic building upon doctrine the scriptures already established. The fact that you don’t recognize such is another matter.
"I do not like the argument that “if you are a new creation, can you become uncreated?” It logically proves too much! We are all goats before we become sheep… how can a goat become uncreated? Basically, the argument only proves that no one has ever been saved!"
I’m sorry that you don’t like the argument. But when you state that it “Logically proves too much”? …I guess you are giving an example when you add: … “We are all goats before we become sheep… how can a goat become uncreated?” It may be beside the point, but your reasoning really does not seem to take into account the scriptural context Jesus was applying in the sheep and goats analogy. The Lord was using goats and sheep as symbolic expressions, an analogy, of those who are His and those who are not. The larger context was that the sheep included those who did not yet know that they were of His fold yet but will eventually follow Him. Goats represent the natural, unregenerate man who rejected God’s call and remained that way. All sheep were once unregenerate but became saved. The Lord used the analogy to convey basic principles of truth concerning those who follow Him and those who don’t. The symbols do represent actual types of people, one who experienced, or will experience, the new creation and the other who did not and never will. (BTW: One should never create doctrine based on analogy either)
The new creation is describing an actual reality which does encompass an actual miraculous change, a new creation. The issue is a factual spiritual occurrence and that it is God, and not man, who made us into a new creation. The question then comes up: Can this be reversed? No vain philosophy or over reaching logic, just a straightforward question which concerns the character and nature of God and His Work in relation to man’s abilities (or inabilities) as revealed in the scriptures.
A goat, as described by the Lord, is offered salvation, just as the sheep are, but in their case rejects it. That’s why the goat analogy reveals that they remain as goats and don’t become sheep. This description is consistent with the Great white throne judgment. So when you stated that all sheep were once goats it actually is not the case in the original context in which the Lord used it. An unregenerate man does not become uncreated, but transformed into a new creation through the new birth when he believes. It is a work of God, not of man. To undo this new creation, it would require God’s undoing it. Man cannot change himself in either case. The question here is the character and nature of God and His Work.
"I also do not like the misleading of the reader in the “logical” argument where the writer equates salvation with the love of God (Romans 8). The passage says nothing about the inability to lose one’s salvation, but he tries to get others to read it into the passage anyway. This is where assumming a doctrine will lead you!"
True. The Romans 8 passage on the love of God does not specifically state in direct terminology that a believer will never, ever lose his salvation, but it does give strong indication on how far God will go in not letting us go. If a human father is willing to die for his son, even if he was rebellious, what does this say about our Father in heaven? However, the evidence is far surer in this truth when one studies the other body of scripture with consistency of context in mind in order to allow the Spirit to establish divine precepts which are irrefutable.
"The question is, can one find such a doctrine of Eternal Security in the Scriptures without assuming it to be true first? I really do not think so! Have you ever really challenged it? Or just assumed it to be true because that is your paradigm?"
In return, can you honestly ask that same question concerning the doctrine that you can lose your salvation?
I can only assume, based on scripture, that all scripture is God breathed and that every word is true. Starting there, my hope, desire and intention is never to “read into” anything, though of course we could do so unintentionally. We need to rely on His Spirit to guide us into all truth as well as sound teaching from those who have thoroughly spent and invested their lives studying and living out God’s Word. We must study with full diligence seeking God’s mind and heart on all matters pertaining to truth.
"I would encourage every believer that faces the doctrine to be honest with themselves and try to approach the issue to the best of their ability, without presuppositions. Google “eternal security” and read a few opposing views, don’t just gamble your eternal soul on doctrine that you have not weighed out. Who knows” You might change your mind (if you approach it with an open mind), or you may be even become more sure of what you believe and why! It ceratinly can’t hurt to put a belief to the test, no matter how much comfort a doctrine brings."
I have once been part of a discipleship ministry that believed that you can lose your salvation. I knew most if not all the verses and was ready to concede that it was most probably the truth. I have studied the verses over and over and have not dared to allow anyone to try to convince me otherwise unless it was strictly found in the scriptures. It was never a matter of any man’s opinion convincing me, for that I was too fearful and angry to allow to happen, believing that any or all around me could very well be deceived and just didn’t realize it. It had to be in the scriptures, clear and sound, nothing else would do. I’d let them know this very fact to their face and only a few would attempt to talk to me but nothing they could say would convinced me, since most could not rebut my arguments from the scriptures.. Needless to say I did have what one may call a rhema, but it was in a hermeneutics class where it all finally came together, understanding the original language being a great boon to understanding that I cannot lose my salvation. All I can say is that it took God and His Word literally through the Holy Spirit to reveal these things to me and all the rest was a floodgate that burst afterwards.
I have gone over the many, many websites on Google and found most of the arguments on the side that one can lose their salvation rather deficient without any context of the passages taken to heart or establishing any isagogics of the author and books.
"If I take comfort in the idea of blowing myself up in an attack on others, because I have been taught to believe that this will get me to heaven… would I be a fool not to check it out to see if the doctrine were true?
Simply put, there is no virtue in believing a lie."
Amen to that
But may I add that we should prove all things. Establish your vertical first and foremost without compromising your life in the Body of Christ. Study diligently and don’t be satisfied with surface level explanations of the scriptures on either side. Especially know this; if you seek Him with all your heart, He is faithful to reveal Himself.
"My opinion is that we christians don't even have salvation. We have the hope for salvation, we have the promise of salvation, and if we obey God we'll get to Heaven.
I disobeyed God, and I know a few other people who were also so disobedient to God, that they are no longer able to produce good fruits. Without good fruits we are disqualified from entering Heaven."
If we obey God we'll get to Heaven? Without good fruits we are disqualified from entering Heaven? These statements both twist real scriptural truths into something that is foreign to scripture.
For instance, we don't obey God in order to get into Heaven, but we obey God BECAUSE He already has saved us and we belong to His heavenly Kingdom.
And a lack of good fruit does not disqualify us from Heaven, but merely shows that we were never saved to begin with. "A good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bring forth good fruit."
If this has been your understanding of salvation all along, then I would seriously and sincerly implore you to "examine yourself" (2 Cor 13:5) to make sure you were ever truly in the faith.
Salvation is not by works, but by grace through FAITH... faith not in ourselves and how sincere think we are, but in Jesus Christ "who died and gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good works" (Titus 2)
I don't think it will heal all this hurt, for me to point to this verse or that verse. This has theological ramifications. But to see it as primarily a theological issue is to miss what's really happening here.
I wonder if we can all agree with the following:
#1) God loves us.
#2) God hurts when we hurt.
#3) God's love and power work together in ensuring us the best destiny possible.
#4) God's deepest hope is that we do good.
#5) Jesus's sacrifice means that there are many things we deserve that we won't have to recieve.
I don't have every theological "i" dotted. I don't have every theological "t" crossed. We don't need to understand exactly how it will all play out.
If we abide in the knowledge that he loves us, and he seeks the best for us, if we strive to do the best we can through Christ, this is all we need.
I'd submit in love and humility that it is our enemy who tells us that we must understand every tiny little detail. It is our enemy who tells us that every one must agree with every little detail we "work out" on our own.
When I look at all the pain that has been expressed in these posts, when I see all this fear, despair, longing, depression, lonliness... I have to ask myself, "Could this come from a God who is Love?"
Thanks
Lisa
Add Your comments:
Use this form only to comment on the article that you just read.
If you have a question, please click here to use the Contact form instead. Thanks!